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February 28 2006

'Serenity' loses to 'Brokeback Mountain' at Moviefone Moviegoer Awards. It was up for unsung gem.

Right, because no one's heard of Brokeback Mountain.

Yeah, I was just wondering...how can something with excellent reviews and Oscar noms up the wazoo be considered 'unsung'??

Dammit, I knew if Mal and Simon had just kissed...
Oh now if anyone was going to kiss, it was going to be Mal and Jayne. There was so much passion beneath all that anger.
I was just thinking the exact same thing, Rogue Slayer.

I'd say that, as movies go, Brokeback Mountain is about as 'sung' as it gets.
Dammit, I knew if Mal and Simon had just kissed...


The perfect moment : right after Mal slams Simon onto the table, he should have leaned in for a nice wet one.

Yah, really, you could say many things about Brokeback - unsung is not one of them. BTW, I did see it and thought the acting was excellent.
Hee, Brokeback Mountain described as unsung. Not that's a good one. I'm finally seeing the movie tomorrow, by the way. I'm expecting good things.
Not seeing Brokeback Mountain for two reasons:

1) It's very, very sung. No way should it have beaten Serenity. I would boycott the movie for that reason alone, but as it happens, I have a much more compelling one.

2) When I first heard about the film, the line about independent cinema from South Park -- "two gay cowboys eating pudding" -- popped into my head. This has completely eliminated any chance that I might have had of taking this movie seriously. I would think about that during the screening, and bust out laughing.

[EDIT: This post has been brought to you by the Mr. Hankey Film Festival.]

[ edited by BAFfler on 2006-02-28 20:47 ]
GVH, it lives up to its expectations. Just an incredible movie that deserved all the hype. Expect to be left with an incredible feeling afterwards

And the hype kinda pisses me off. I know it brings in more money, but it almost takes away what an amazing, quietly beautiful film it is.
Dammit, I knew if Mal and Simon had just kissed...


The perfect moment : right after Mal slams Simon onto the table, he should have leaned in for a nice wet one.


...wow.
I'd die.
A good death, of course.
Then I'd go to Llama heaven.
What's in llama heaven?

Llama whores?
gay llamas silly.

ETA: And unsung....WTF? whatever.

I mean as compelling as having two gay cowboys growing up in mid-America in the 60's onwards, it would be way more compelling to have a scandalous gay relationship between the rugged war hardened captain and a fancy pants doctor from the core worlds(including the kiss scene suggested by coolpeace).

I mean gay cowboys in space. HELLO!!!! Add to that the problems of having a psychic crazy sister and the alliance and reavers coming after you, all these would be obstacles in their forbidden love. Oh yeah and the mechanic and space hooker would cause problems too. Dammit Joss, why did you not think of adding a gay kiss scene? Sheesh... what a hack.

[ edited by kurya on 2006-02-28 21:16 ]
BAFfler, now I can't see the movie either because you made me associate it with South Park. And now if I go and see it I'm going to expect them to be eating pudding.

I was already associating this movie with those "interactive male" commercials "I wanted a real cowboy, and I *got* one."

I'm sure it's a beautiful movie, but I'm a little hyped out on this one myself.
Gay llama go to heaven, hetros go to hell. You heard it first here on Whedonesque.

I seem to recall they do actually eat pudding. Clearly somebody didn't see Southpark.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-02-28 21:15 ]
I agree. I'm a big gay guy and I haven't even seen Brokeback (Ssshhhh, don't tell anyone). Way too sung. And, I've lost count of how many times I've watched Serenity. Way too unsung.

(though, I have to admit to reading the Brokeback short story some years back and it is heartbreakingly beautiful)
What's in llama heaven?


Why, 72 llama virgins, of course.
"Brokeback" is a wonderful film, but unsung, it is certainly not.
Gay llama go to heaven, hetros go to hell. You heard it first here on Whedonesque.


Gossi, is your cat whispering in your ear again?
Serenity isn't unsung either! I sang at every Serenity preview I went to! ;-)
It doesn't make any sense to me *not* to see a film if there's too much hype. The hype is irrelevant. The lack of hype surrounding Serenity wouldn't stop you from seeing it, why would extra hype around Brokeback stop you? It's stunning. You're missing out.

Now Serenity had only a teeny amount of hype, I agree, but alot of awards are going to Brokeback because of what it means I think. This is a huge shift in Hollywood film-making. It shouldn't be, but it is.

I think also although there was hype, we are not yet (maybe the hype proves this) in a society where a 'gay' movie can come out (hee) and it's no big deal. My understanding is that this film didn't get a very wide release in the US. A friend of mine has just returned from Australia and stayed in a town where Brokeback was banned from being shown. The hype was there, but the acceptance for it even being shown isn't.

[ edited by lone fashionable wolf on 2006-02-28 21:59 ]
I'm waiting to watch Brokeback when I buy it on DVD.
The theaters here don't let Llamas in.
And I no longer see movies if my Llamas aren't allowed.

And in the llamibluratora, which i just made up, llama heaven is like llama hell.
No matter who goes, there's lots of llama orgies.
"It doesn't make any sense to me *not* to see a film if there's too much hype. The hype is irrelevant."

For me, hype can totally turn me off before I've ever seen the movie. I know it's nothing to do WITH the movie, it's just that it's like having something jammed down my throat against my will. In cases where that happens, I do usually end up seeing the movie at some later date (post hype) and enjoy it without super high expectations. Does that make any sense? :) One notable exception: I have still NEVER seen the Titanic, hope to die without doing so! :)

As far as the unsung...Brokeback was most definitely sung. Even if it was JUST because of the homosexual aspect, people have heard of it, even if they've never seen it. Like someone above mentioned, if you've got the Oscar nods, well, how much more sung can you get? It got wide enough release to actually play in West Virginia where I am so I think it got a fair enough spread. I didn't actually think it would make it here. True, I'm in a part of WV that's basically become a suburb to DC and Virginia, so maybe that's not representative of the entire state.

[ edited by Grace on 2006-02-28 22:16 ]
Titanic is from sci-fi vet Jim Cameron, who produced probably the coolest sci-fi film ever (Aliens). Titanic is also the highest grossing film ever made. I also like it. (Buhbye, remaining credibility). (My cat typed that).

Even if it was JUST because of the homosexual aspect

Hang on, what? I believe the reason people have heard about it is because it's a great film - which happens to be about gay people but doesn't sterotype them to be raging queens.
Agree, gossi, the film is more of a snapshot of society and its narrowmindedness (and the desctruction it causes) of that time - not that much has changed, some but still a ways to go.
It doesn't make any sense to me *not* to see a film if there's too much hype.

You've obviously never fallen to the levels of spite that I have. If you had, it'd make perfect sense to you. =)
I've never seen Titanic. Probably owing to some spitefulness.

I've always vastly preferred Alien to Aliens, but the sequel seems to get more attention. So some spite there. The Celine Dion song thing. Definitely some spite there. I actually rather like both Leo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet, so that's no excuse. But the hype - yeah, I'd like to claim it had no effect, but it probably did put me off a fair bit. I'd also like to claim that I have issues with the tone of the movie, the mediocrity of the script, and the manipulativeness of the whole shebang. But I can't, 'cos I haven't seen it. (Those are barbs that lie latent in my mind, ready to be aimed if I'm ever kidnapped, tied to a chair, and forced to watch.)

And now I'm sort of stuck on wearing my refusal to see Titanic as a badge of (really very little) pride. Very silly. And yet somehow I shall survive.

What were we talking about? Oh, Brokeback. Haven't seen it, but fully intend to. Not overly-hyped in my book.
See, the funny thing is, those are the kind of reasons many people (mainly, for example, Star Wars fans) refuse to watch Serenity :) The hype Serenity had was online - it was actually the #1 film discussed in blogs and such online for a few weeks around release. And, amusingly, that just didn't translate too well into sales. I would say hype puts people off, but for the most part I'd say otherwise - 'Brokeback' opened in the US in, what, 16 screens? It's since made a mint.
"Hang on, what? I believe the reason people have heard about it is because it's a great film - which happens to be about gay people but doesn't sterotype them to be raging queens."

Sorry, should clarify. I'm not saying the gay element is WHY they heard of it, but undoubtedly even if the movie had sucked, they would have heard of it for "gay cowboy" reason alone. That's still enough of an issue in today's society to make it hard for some to separate that from the story. The fact that the movie is apparently very good (I can't say, haven't seen it yet), is what hopefully lifts it beyond the "Southpark" level. :) (and yes, now I have that bit stuck in my head as well).

Glad to see I'm not the only Titanic abstainer here! LOL. And yes, I also love me my Alien movie! My issues do include DiCaprio, the evil Celine Dion, etc.

However, my biggest issue is that I saw a preview for the Titanic a good YEAR before it came out and the first little snippet had me hooked. It showed Bill Paxton talking to an elderly woman about the necklace and I thought, cool: An old mystery, this will be neat. But as the time drew closer to it's release date, the trailers totally changed into something that most definitely does NOT attract me (fluffly romance). To me it was a major case of how misleading a 30 second commercial can be about something. To this day I still don't 'really' know if the movie was one or the other (mystery or romance). For me it turned into the old joke, "Don't need to see it, pretty much know how it ends, the boat sinks." I'm completely sure I haven't given that movie a fair chance. It just turned me sour on hype and it's hard to get past that.

"What were we talking about? Oh, Brokeback. Haven't seen it, but fully intend to. Not overly-hyped in my book."
Ditto, just haven't had the chance.

[ edited by Grace on 2006-02-28 23:02 ]
Oh, I happen to be brimming with spite today (but apparently this isn't all about me), but still. Titanic hype was, as we all discovered to our chagrin, totally unjustified. Brokeback hype ain't.

My feeling is the hype does have alot to do with the 'gay' tag, and you have to spend hours convincing people it's a great film, regardless of two (really hot) men getting it on. There are no raging queens, but ths film wouldn't be hyped the way it has been if it wasn't such a beautiful departure from the Hollywood norm.
Brokeback is so totally sung. Truly. That aside, hype that leads to tolerance? Why the hell not. If this ends up being the year of the Big Gay Oscar (Brokeback, Ang Lee, Philip SH and Felicity Huffman are my calls to win the big 4), good. Unlike what was pathetically referred to as the "chocolate Oscar" a few years back (please don't try to convince me Halle Barry can act. I don't buy it. Never will. And Denzel's too little, too late Oscar...sad), these performances and films have earned what they might get.

I have to disagree that a film's hype is directly related to its Oscar noms, though. I wouldn't say there's been a ton of over-hyping for Capote, for example.

And while I understand that hype can get a bit irritating and can leave a bad taste, I gave up on being so easily persuaded years ago. Lots of things are hyped. Exercise is hyped--but I'm not going to get fat and lazy just to spite those who hype it.

So, yes, Serenity is way unsung. And for your consideration, may I toss Match Point into the ring? My pick for movie of the year. Stunningly crafted. Way overlooked.
Titanic hype was, as we all discovered to our chagrin, totally unjustified. Brokeback hype ain't.


Wahey, speak for yourself. I enjoyed Titanic - and given it's still (by a large margin) the highest grossing movie ever I'd say a great many people enjoyed it.

Regarding Aliens - the reason I find it enjoyable is because it's actually a sequel. I mean, they don't just do the same thing again in Aliens. It's great stuff, truly - well up there on my favourite films ever. "Game over man... Game over!" combined with a robotic fighting Ripley in the same film? It don't get better.
True, I'm in a part of WV that's basically become a suburb to DC and Virginia, so maybe that's not representative of the entire state.

Nope, it was also playing near Buckhannon, WV, when I was there recently, and that's definitely the heart of the state :-)

As for hype... It rarely keeps me from ever seeing a movie, but it can definitely color my opinion of it. I saw both Ray and A Beautiful Mind after all the hype, and hated both ('course, i don't think I would have liked them beforehand either).
I was really glad I saw Brokeback Mountain, Swing Blade, Boys Don't Cry, and Crash, to name a few, before there were any articles or most people I knew had ever heard of them.

As for Titanic, somehow I did end up getting roped into seeing it. But SNT, your criticisms work remarkably well given that you've never seen it :-). I would just add that its manipulation didn't work particularly well, since I felt nothing at the end of the film. Usually, even when I know my emotions are being manipulated, I do still respond in some way....
Like I think I said when the noms for this were announced, Brokeback is way sung so I don't think it should even be in the category. Serenity was actually fairly well sung as well tho' it's just that people didn't buy the album (to really bully the metaphor into submission).

Alien and Aliens are both all time classics but for entirely different reasons. One basically invented the sci-fi horror genre and one, if not invented, certainly revitalised the sci-fi action movie (for adults at least). Aliens is also eminently quotable which adds to a film's longevity. Sadly, most of the quotes only really apply if you're a marine hunting xenomorphs on a distant planet but i've got them memorised anyway, just in case.

I thought Titanic could've been worse, especially the sinking bit, though by the end I was thinking 'Twice ? They only tried to get Leo on the wreckage twice ?' (well OK, I was actually thinking 'Please end before I wet myself' but you know what I mean) cos if that was me I think I would've 'encouraged' Kate to shift her shapely derriere tout bleedin' suite and hung onto that bit of flotsam as if, y'know, my life depended on it. I reckon with a bit of balancing they both could've survived, she just didn't seem all that motivated frankly. Sure, her heart might well go on but if you asked Jack I bet he'd rather his entire body went on along with it. Eternal love my arse.
I've seen Brokeback Mountain, and while it was obviously a bigger budget movie with excellent acting and gorgeous cinematography, the story in Serenity is tighter and more "organic" in that you can clearly see the connections between the characters' behaviors and the motivations behind them.

Brokeback - which is this decade's equivalent of "Love Story" or "Titanic" - is well done; but the story is missing something crucial (like a defining moment that makes the two men life-long lovers) - and it is very much sung. Ten years from now, it's going to be passe.

Serenity is the truly unsung movie, and the kind of movie that won't age a whole lot over time.
cos if that was me I think I would've 'encouraged' Kate to shift her shapely derriere tout bleedin' suite and hung onto that bit of flotsam as if, y'know, my life depended on it.

Hee! :-)
Actually Nebulla1400, Brokeback Mountain has a relatively small production budget. And I heard this somewhere, and to confirm, boxofficemojo.com indicates the budget is 14 mil. So it was even a lower budget than Serenity(although Serenity is sci-fi action so... obviously alot of the costs would go to set and effects). I bet you the actual advertising budget(and other costs) is probably at least twice the production budget. Considering how much"sung" this movie is.

[ edited by kurya on 2006-03-01 00:59 ]
I liked Titanic for the simple reason that JC went through so much pain-staking trouble to get all the details right, it felt like one was really looking at the boat, and then watching it sink. There are some really haunting moments in the movie that put me there and that doesn't happen to me often. And I also enjoyed many of the supporting characters, such as Victor Garber and Kathy Bates. And usually I love Kate Winslet, but her character was fairly blah in this movie. Which brings me to what I didn't like: the love story. Silly, predictable pabulum. And the deal with the necklace? It's not like Jack gave it to her, so why would it mean anything to her? And I am in total agreement with Saje: Rose, move over and let Jack float with you! But the music was great... until the end, where Celine did her thing. My husband at the time turned to me in the theatre and said, "it's really stupid that there are words and singing to this music, and that Celine is the one singing it." The theme itself is beautiful, it's only when Celine does her over-singing that is becomes unlistenable.

And Brokeback? When a movie is starting to become a catch-phrase ("do you think this outfit is a little Brokeback?"), that means it is so sung. In fact, I can't think of any movie out this year that was more sung.
Ahhh, you are right about the budget.

It's still a weak and yet overdone story, and so very sung...
I agree on many fronts:

Brokeback Mountain is way, way sung and if anything, to go by buzz, the most talked about movie of the year. Everybody I know has either heard of it or seen it, and yes, it is almost as good as its hype. I saw it at a preview screening, days before it opened, when the movie was still an indie pic with an unknown marketability. While the film later opened to much bigger markets, its opening weekend was confined to 3 cities -- SF, NY & LA. See a trend there? And it did phenomenonly well. Which pushed it to open in even more cities, and then, picking up buzz and award noms, even wider. It's the little movie that could, and for that, I love it. No one expected that it would ever play outside the big cities or make any money -- no movie with such blatant gay subject matter ever had before, leading to a ghettoization of movies with gay topics -- and if Brokeback can help change that, then I'm entirely behind it.

Not to mention, it's also a lovely, emotionally heartfelt movie. I do think Serenity is "better" artistically, but who knows what time will tell?
I am so glad I read Annie Proulx's story ('Brokeback Mountain') 8 years ago. Not only do I get to play my cooler-than-thou old-skool-fan card on this one, but (having been familiar with the story for so long) the hype and general bullsh*t surrounding the movie doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Yay me.

Oh, as for their "unsung" movie nominees? Looks like, to these people, "unsung" means either "has an uncomfortably serious central theme", "didn't go to number 1 at the American box office" or (possibly) "British". They do, perhaps, need a dictionary.
"I wish I knew how to quit you Joss"

hmm sorry...
hmm.. Serenity was great yes... Brokeback was good yes....
But I can't really say that they can be compared.
Eventhough I'm the first to say that Brokeback...just isnt' all that affirming and in some ways not all that different than some other gay tragedy movies i.e. Philadelphia, Angels in America (albeit not a movie originally)... what separates it from the typical gay tragedy movie-- is that they aren't really tragic because they are gay... but their gayness certainly is part of the tragedy.
I mean it's not like this is a movie about how two gay cowboys meet fall in love, one has a serious accident and is crippled and the stuggles thereof... that would be much more radical.
It's not sung, it's opera-ed. Weird how a top-grossing movie with grand reviews (I haven't and won't see it, but I rarely see any movies) and hype beyond the stratosphere can be called unsung.

Now, the Sunnydale HS cheerleaders...they were SO unsung!
The only comparison that could be made between these movies is that they are both damn good movies.
It's an online poll, whether or not a film is unsung or "totally sung" (a phrase which is rapidly getting on my wick) is neither here nor there. There are more people online who liked Brokeback than Serenity and voted in this poll. That's all.

Now if you are talking a truly unsung and overlooked movie try Jarhead. Go in with an open mind and no expectations and you will be suprised.
Brokeback "unsung"?! My muscular buttocks it's "unsung".

(My buttocks are far from muscular, but you catch my meaning.)

[ edited by Ginny on 2006-03-01 04:05 ]
Now if you are talking a truly unsung and overlooked movie try Jarhead. Go in with an open mind and no expectations and you will be suprised.

Agreed. I thought 'Jarhead' was excellent. I'm surprized it wasn't more of a hit, surprized it's been ignored this awards season. Sam Mendes must curse Ang Lee's name.. or his timing, at least. Jake Gyllenhaal, in my opinion, gave a much better performance in that than in 'Brokeback..' (not that he wasn't good in the latter, but it really is Heath Ledger's performance that stands out of the two leads. Whereas Jake completely owns 'Jarhead'.)

[ edited by Bad Kitty on 2006-03-01 05:23 ]
I feel that my major accomplishment for the day is inserting the idea of "two gay cowboys eating pudding" in the heads of at least two people, and making them associate it with Brokeback.

I've had one s**tty day, haven't I?
That's "gay shepherds" and not "gay cowboys". Ahem. ;-)
Oh, just gag me now.

Why is everyone falling all over themselves to jump on the bandwagon of Brokeback fans? Whee, it's about gay guys...hoooo!

Big whup. I saw it. I loved it. It was so..."guy love story". Good, and in parts, even great. But I can't stand how it's become this trendy touchword bullshit.

I liked it because I thought Ang Lee was really brave to do a film about such a taboo subject in the cowboy community. Hey, I lived in Texas for a decade. I know how redneck and backward the majority populace is there (sorry, so true). I also thought the actors, being hetero men themselves, as far as I know, did a kickass job.

What pisses me off is that now that it has become such a 'flava'... that the whole intent and meaning of the movie is totally gone. Now it's just a buzzword, a ringtone... and it won't be lauded for the actual groundbreaker that it is.

Shame, that.
Well darn it for going mainstream. That is no bad thing. People like it, apparently more than Serenity. It is allowed you know.
Yeah, have no problems with Brokebacks succes. Hell, like I said above, I'm going to see it this evening ;-).

Willowy, I don't get what you're trying to say. Do you dislike that people focuss on the fact that it's a movie about gay people? But isn't that kind of the point? Even you state:

I liked it because I thought Ang Lee was really brave to do a film about such a taboo subject in the cowboy community.


I agree with that (at least, I think I do - having not seen it yet). But the 'taboo subject' you speak of is 'gay cowboys', right? So I don't see what's wrong there, that's basically the same thing as focussing on the fact the characters are gay.

Or maybe it's a question of disliking that the movie has become so mainstream and popular that it'll have less of an impact on people? If that's the case, I don't think that's true. More people are going to be seeing this movie and as such more people are going to be affected by it. The movie only got released here in The Netherlands áfter the hype had already started, and I've still heard great stories about it from friends. So I'm thinking the impact is still coming across strong enough.

As for Jarhead, I agree. Great movie and I, too, was surprised it didn't get any notice at the Oscars. Oh, and finally: I am also one of the people who got put off Titanic because of the hype. Although, granted, I think it was mostly Celine Dion's fault. Man, I hate that song. As such, I still haven't seen it either and greatly identify with SNT's post on the subject ;-)

ETA: rephrased a bit, after the original post read like a pretty unfriendly reply to Willowy, which was in no way intended, obviously.

[ edited by GVH on 2006-03-01 12:37 ]
I loved Brokeback, thought it was one of the best films I've sene in an age - but yes, it was about as sung as a film gets.

The hype didn't put me off, I got the impression of an intelligent and well-made film, which it was. the Titanic (another abstainer here) hype just made me gag, and if it represented the film accurately then I'm glad I heard about it beforehand and could avoid it. Going to the cinema is expensive and takes up a fair bit of time, so I do try to find out if I am likely to enjoy a film rather than going to something I've not heard anything about.
I would just like to say I loved Brokeback because everybody else did. I got the ring tone. It's so KEWL.

Or not. If Brokeback had been a bad film, it wouldn't have done so well. Just because something is mainstream, doesn't mean it isn't good.
I still haven't forgiven Ang Lee for The Hulk. Most boring movie I've seen in ages. Well apart from the Girl with the Pearl Earring.
Personally, i thought that Brokeback Mountain was overhyped rubbish and needed more Reavers.

Seriously, i truthfully was not impressed by the movie (bored me to death, if i'm being brutally honest) but i went into the movie with an open mind, rather than going along with all the media hype that was going on at the time. Brokeback Mountain just wasn't to my personal tastes.

Two Gay Cowboys Eating Pudding however, brilliant movie! Deserved a Mr. Hanky Oscar!
Heh. Simon, I'd say the problem with The Hulk wasn't so much that it was boring, just that is was a very, very bad movie on, well, all fronts. But if I end up loving Brokeback Mountain, I'll just have to go ahead and forgive and forget The Hulk. Maybe.
...Whereas the real reason you should ignore these awards is because they named Goblet of Fire as the movie of the year.
Hey! GoF was fun! And actually a quite decent movie. I saw it twice at the theatre :-)

(but, granted, it certainly wasn't the best movie in 2005)
Whereas the real reason you should ignore these awards is because they named Goblet of Fire as the movie of the year.

Didn't see it. I only heard good buzz about it, though.
I can forgive Ang Lee for the Hulk not only because of Brokeback, but also because of Sense and Sensibility, the Ice Storm, Eat Drink Man Woman, and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (I realize that last had its own bit of hype to overcome, but I saw it prehype and loved it....). Not to excuse The Hulk completely, though. I mean it was really, really bad!
*sigh*

No GVH, I didn't say anything was 'wrong' with gay cowboys. Holy shit, I can't even praise something here without looking homophobic to some, I guess.

My actual meaning was that the mainstream cowboy community tends not to be accepting of gay men in their midst. Redneck mentality and all? Sooo, I thought Ang Lee was brave in showcasing that. Get it?

And, exotic mushroom, yes, I'm aware of the fact that it's popular. Doesn't mean I have to like the hype.
Wheee, misconceptions all around! ;-) Anyway, Willowy, I was not trying to say that you were being homophobic or implying that you were saying that there was anything wrong with gay cowboys. I just didn't get your comment, because it seemed to have mixed messages.

I'll quote the apropriate part to clarify:

Oh, just gag me now.

Why is everyone falling all over themselves to jump on the bandwagon of Brokeback fans? Whee, it's about gay guys...hoooo!


Here it seems you dislike the fact that everyone seems to be loving the movie (which would be the hype thing) and you seem to imply that people shouldn't focuss on the gay aspect, because it's no big deal.

But you then go on to say this:

Big whup. I saw it. I loved it. It was so..."guy love story". Good, and in parts, even great. But I can't stand how it's become this trendy touchword bullshit.

I liked it because I thought Ang Lee was really brave to do a film about such a taboo subject in the cowboy community. Hey, I lived in Texas for a decade. I know how redneck and backward the majority populace is there (sorry, so true). I also thought the actors, being hetero men themselves, as far as I know, did a kickass job.


And this confused me, because you're now basically saying:

a) Everyone shouldn't jump on the bandwagon (btw, I liked the movie too);
b) the fact that it focusses on two gay people is no big deal (btw, I love the fact that Ang Lee was brave enough to focuss on two gay people in the cowboy community).

:-p

So that's where my confusion came from, and I'd thought I'd mention that I didn't 'get' what you were trying to say. But it's possible I wasn't too clear on that in my comment, myself :-)

ETA: sorry if this is getting somewhat OT...

[ edited by GVH on 2006-03-01 16:29 ]
I don't think that people should like the movie just because the leads are gay characters. I think people should like the movie because it's a beautifully wrought love story, the subject matter is unflinchingly presented, the cinematography is gorgeous...and dozens of other reasons.

To just like Brokeback Mountain because of the 'gayness' minimizes the impact of the movie. And most of the hype I'm hearing is doing just that, focusing on the gay aspect at the exclusion of all else, and turning what should be appreciated into a Letterman monologue joke.
I figured I'd pipe up and say that whilst I enjoyed Brokeback Mountain I didn't think it was all that fantastic but then I'm not really a romantic drama fan. I do think that if it'd been a story about a man and a woman then it wouldn't be getting anywhere near as much attention. Doesn't affect my views on the film either way though, was decent but I won't be buying it on dvd.
That makes it clearer, Willowy, thanks! (for the record, I didn't really understand the earlier comment either, so I knew where you were coming from, GVH.)
Actually, most of the discussion I've seen lately has been more about the movie on its own merits - its cinematography, acting, the love story, etc. But I can see your point, since some of the initial hype and media attention was just about the gay aspect. And certainly, there are still plenty of Americans who only know it as "the gay cowboy movie."

I absolutely agree that to like - or dislike – Brokeback just because of the gay factor "minimizes the impact of the movie." And shortchanges it. I hope that most people who see it, though, come away with far more than that. After all, there have been lots of gay-themed movies in the past that were horrible movies because they were just "message" movies. To me, this got past that and became a great, unsentimental movie in its own right (based on a great short story, for anyone who hasn't read it). The "gayness" is an integral part of it, and not something to be ignored. But it's not all there is to it.

If any of that made any sense... :-)
Firstly, as has already been said, how in the Nine Hells can you call "Brokeback Mountain" rutting unsung?!

Secondly, is anyone else having problems viewing the actual awards? I've got the site up, and in the part of the site where the actual awards would be displayed (or I think they'd be displayed), there's nothing? Is this just me, or is anyone else having this problem?
"And, exotic mushroom, yes, I'm aware of the fact that it's popular. Doesn't mean I have to like the hype.
Willowy | March 01, 16:16 CET"

Indeed not, I totally agree. Didn't say you did.

FYI, my name is one word. Thank you kindly.

:0)
Good to see we're all still getting along.

All I can add, after a searching and sometimes painful self-examination, is that I sometimes like mainstream films, and I sometimes don't. It doesn't really matter to me that 10 bejillion people like a movie if something about it turns me off. Like Titanic. Just rubbed me the wrong way. And American Beauty, about which I've posted far too many times.

And I'm not sorry to admit that I'm a snob about many things, and that it gives me a little satisfaction to feel that I am one of an enlightened few with respect to certain tastes - such as BtVS, or Firefly/Serenity, or Rilo Kiley, or Billy Bragg.

I sincerely hope none of the things I truly love go entirely mainstream - mostly because what the mainstream giveth, the mainstream throw away all too soon, and I spend the rest of my life explaining that I "still" like Band X or Book Y, when everyone else has "moved on." "No, I always liked them, I wasn't following some bloody fad." Feh.

On the other hand, I happen to love The English Patient (one of the few movie adaptations that's fit to stand alongside its source - and yes, I'm a big fan of the book), and I know many many thought that was overhyped or "totally sung."

It may be a matter of timing - if I know the material ahead of time, or see the film early in its run, I won't get pissed off by the media bandwagon. I mean, I don't even watch TV much at all, and I *still* get pissed off at the advertising of product 24/7, even at the very *notion* of the advertising of product. As Willowy suggested, the mainstreaming or hyping reduces the art to a soundbite or teachable moment. It also, as I mentioned, allocates a limited time in the sun, and then tells the art to move along so the next big thing can take its place.

There. That's quite enough of that on an already-defunct thread.
Willowy said:

Hey, I lived in Texas for a decade. I know how redneck and backward the majority populace is there (sorry, so true).

Oh, nice. Not at all bigoted.

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