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March 02 2006

Joss On Serenity, Spike And More. Lovely new interview with Joss over at Empire Online.

"No! It's a optical illusion!"

I burst out laughing at that - thanks for the link Simon.
You know how on the Sin City: Recut DVD they have an alternate audio track with the premiere audience in Austin, TX? How you can basically watch the film with that audience? If Universal puts out a Special Edition DVD, that's what I want. I want the audio track from the first test screening in December '04. I want to hear the exact moment... well... you know...
We are trying to put together a Spike movie – I don’t know if it’s financially feasible.

I've got a little money in my wallet. Will that help? Is there anything fans can do?
Is there anything fans can do?


My best bet would be to write to 20th Century Fox to convince them that fans would buy a Spike movie on DVD. I would. I want to watch the Buffyverse again on the television.
Hehehehe that line was wonderful!

I'm just wondering when he says about it being "financially feasible" if some of the fans couldnt put some money towards it. I wouldnt mind putting a tenner towards it. Wouldnt be much out of my pocket. Course it does have its issues, and Joss might feel a bit weird. Still...

(EDITED: Killinj, I'd definetely feel the same way about doing that. Probably will write to 20th Century Fox as well)

[ edited by Apocalypse on 2006-03-02 20:51 ]
I'll offer $10, but I want script approval. If Spike shanshus, I'm backing out.
Release of Serenity on DVD. Vague Spike movie mention. I don't think I'm the only one thinking there's a connection somewhere there.

I have started to think of the Spike movie as Ripper Mk2, unfortunately. Two great characters + two wonderful actors = a big fat nothing. *pulls sad face*
“This is cool. Look! They’re shooting.”

LOL. That's as hilarious _and_ to the point as the "blithely, and legitimately" I got when I asked how he could kill those two characters and how he was going to bring them back.

Too bad there's still no point in asking _when_ he's going to bring them back ...
What's protocol in writing to 20th? Short and to the point postcard job or a long, diatribic plea?

[ edited by Jackal on 2006-03-02 21:11 ]
I'll offer $10, but I want script approval. If Spike shanshus, I'm backing out.

This is why they won't take money from fans to make something, because some want to dictate to the creator how it should be done. I want Joss' vision, not someone elses.

To clarify, the money I have to offer is to purchase the final product. If enough of us are willing to pay for it, maybe it will show Fox that there's a viable market with money to be made. Although, Fox has already made a fortune on Buffy DVDs, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't want to make more.

We need an organized effort. I few of us writing in to 20th Century Fox (which I've done) won't be enough.
If everybody here sends Joss $10, he'll have $80 to make the movie. Will that be enough?
Make that $90. I'm in.
Spike movie? Pleeasse let Illyria be in it, please let Illyria be in it.......
There has been an organised ongoing Spike movie campaign for a few years now.

[ edited by exoticmushroom on 2006-03-02 21:40 ]
Maybe they could take pre-orders of a Spike movie....I suspect they'd collect a bundle, sight unseen, if that could be arranged. All I need to know is that it's a Spike movie and that Joss has done it...sold!!!
OMG I cannot take more of this Spike movie talk. It feels like it's been going on for YEARS and YEARS now.

I may weep.
This is why they won't take money from fans to make something, because some want to dictate to the creator how it should be done. I want Joss' vision, not someone elses.


It was a joke.

And for the record, they won't take money because it credits a rights issue, in terms of where profits go.
I remember the sound in the cinema when "That Scene" happened, and then again when the camera showed the graves of Mr Universe, Book....... and Wash. People around me were hoping that it was another mislead, the wound wasn't that bad, Simon and The Operatives people had saved him, whatever.

I want to see the scene with the grip sitting in the corner? Where? I want to see it!
Seeing as I'm not privy to the inner workings of 20th Century Fox, here's my outsider take on how a Spike movie could be financially feasible.

1) DVD sales (domestic and overseas - yeah I know I love in Northern Ireland but when I say domestic I mean USA). Plus it could be sold as a package with the Buffy and Angel boxsets.
2) First run TV rights on a cable network - Sci Fi would be a good choice.
3) Sell it online - apparently Lost episodes are being sold like hot cakes on iTunes.
4) Overseas rights - for instance Sky One in the UK would be chomping at the bit to air it. And then they buy anything (like the remake of 'The Poseidon Adventure').
"I love in Northern Ireland"

Cough :)
Good call :p.
If Spike shanshus, I'm backing out.


Nice. I'm totally going to start using 'shanshu' as a verb.
There has been an organised ongoing Spike movie campaign for a few years now.

Yes, I know, I'm a member of the group, but they haven't been actively doing very much lately. Maybe now is a good time to step things up.

[ edited by killinj on 2006-03-02 22:17 ]

"I love in Northern Ireland"
Cough :)
Apocalypse | March 02, 22:08 CET


Hey, y'know it's a thing. Don't be judgmental.
It was a joke.

Sorry, The Dark Shape, it is sometimes hard to tell when someone is just kidding. :)
Last time we saw you was at the Serenity premiere party, cutting some rug to Dancing Queen.

Sorry, but I'm totally using my post here to boast (it makes me big with the manly and is a great quality in me). That was me he was dancin' with, whilst a coupl'a'journos looked on Joss' shoes sat in the corner, wondering how much they would sell on eBay.

In that bar, when asked for a Bitter, they asked 'Bitter Lemon?' as they had no idea what you meant. It was THAT POSH. And free. Oh, and there was a bloke in the bog handing out paper towels.

I have since decided it wasn't the situation which was surreal, it was the surroundings. And yes, that doesn't even make sense. And even better, look at the grammar abuse here! I shall stop pounding.

Boasting over. Useless posting returns. This post was sponsored by Kevin, master of da babble, son of Darth, brother of Betamax.
I think Gossi's head has gotten a bit tooo big.... *takes a pin* *POP*...:P
Good interview, entertaining and interesting as always.

So glad that we're finally getting him saying "I'm working on getting a Spike movie made", it seems further on than "I'm looking at the possibility of doing something in the Buffyverse", I just hope they do eventually get the go ahead. I popped in one of my Buffy DVDs for the first time in over 8 months yesterday and it really hit me how much I want to see these characters, any of these characters and this universe again.
kurya - I can't actually fit into rooms any more.

Ghost Spike - I'm with you. I was watching Buffy Season 7 again today, and I forgot just how well some of that season tied together. What you see at the beginning hinted at ultimately tends to come together. Plus, funny. I found myself even with the Spike love. Somebody should really do a DVD project.

Let's face it - Firefly found it's audience on DVD. After it was cancelled, pretty much. If there's anybody 20th Century Fox have at the moment who should do a DVD Premiere, his name is Josh Wheldon (seen here filming his part of Evil!Josh in Firefly Season 2).

[ edited by gossi on 2006-03-03 00:48 ]
"Release of Serenity on DVD. Vague Spike movie mention. I don't think I'm the only one thinking there's a connection somewhere there."

Shake hands, EM - my view precisely. I'm fed up with the Spike movie being the Joss equivalent of a carrot held in front of a bunch of donkeys. My donkey days are done.
Uh...was that work yours Gossi? Its funny... but in a bad taste kind of way... lol... I can imagine someone being offended, someone not me! *eh hem* *cough* Joss see that picture and mock Gossi, MOCK HIM! *cough*.
his name is Josh Wheldon (seen here filming his part of Evil!Josh in Firefly Season 2).

Funny, this guy looks just like Wash!Josh as seen in the outtakes from "Out of Gas." ;-)
He looks like a bit of an evil dictator. Quick hide your money and art treasures!

Pssst...MOCK HIM!
OK, dictator yes but evil ? Let's not rush to judge. He could've been born with that moustache.

Also, screw Josh Weldon let's get this Joe Sweden guy to do it. His name's all over town and i've heard he's some kind of genius.

And gossi, you may have danced with his Jossness but the question is did you know it was him or were you told the next day ? Enquiring minds need to know.

Re: 'trying to put together a Spike movie'. I've said it before but i'll say it again, Do or Do not. There is no try. All this waiting's starting to hurt. Honestly, i'm shifting from foot to foot. Pretty soon there could be crossing of legs.
Release of Serenity on DVD. Vague Spike movie mention. I don't think I'm the only one thinking there's a connection somewhere there


No not really. I can understand the frustration from Spike fans about the apparent lack of progress on a TV movie being made. But here's the thing or rather things.

1) These days when is Joss mostly likely to get interviewed?

When he has a movie or a DVD coming out.

2) Do interviews with directors or show creators always focus on their most current project?

No they don't. There's usually reflection on what has gone before and indeed discussion on what their future projects will be.

3) Has Joss actually said "Buy my Serenity DVD or the Spike movie won't get made!"?

No. And why would he? Or why would he even hint that? The press and his fandom would come down on him like a ton of bricks. And when he does interviews about Serenity, he's appealing to a far bigger audience than the Buffyverse fandom.

Basically 20th Century Fox should wise up and realise there's still a fanbase who want to see further tales of the Buffyverse and that they will pay to see it.
I think it stinks that Joss gets flack when he mentions the possiblity of a Spike movie instead of being thanked that he's keeping the possibility and hopes alive.
Joss is doing quite well right now, I'm not sure that a Spike movie is integral to his future successes. And I can't imagine that anyone who wasn't planning on watching WW or Goners will be inclined to just because Joss mentions the Spike movie. I'm not sure what he's gaining by bringing up the possibility if it doesn't exist.
Count me among those who is thrilled everytime he mentions a Spike movie.
Yes. Those Spike fans trying to fling mud at Joss for mentioning the project (which brings it the publicity it needs to happen) should eat that mud. The only way that project will happen is if Joss pushes it - 20th Century Fox are apparently lacking of the brain cells, frankly, if they aren't all over it as they have a lot of money they can make from it. So, person to fling mud at? Shouldn't be Joel Swedoon.

We all know the mustache on Josh Wheldon is fake anyway - it should be totally ginger. I draw it the Knightrider Evil Michael Knight way.

By the way, Empire deserve much praise for being a really mainstream magazine which has been behind Serenity in a big way.
I think this is the first time that he's mentioned where I am actually starting to believe it may be a possibility. It's great that he's pushing it a little more, means he has the idea, and possible script done. As for the flack...well, I dunno if any was seriosly paying him out (Oz slang meaning giving him shit), it seemed more about the money stuff to me.

BTW...I'm $100 in if Spike gets the Shanshu, if not, then hell, I won't even look at the DVD cover!!!
Sshhhyeaaa Riiiight!

p.s. I'm a prostitute robot from the future!

[ edited by nixygirl on 2006-03-03 03:32 ]
>> Do interviews with directors or show creators always focus on their most current project? <<

If you only have eighteen minutes to do that interview _and_ you have to share that time with four colleagues, you bet you'll focus very much on the project at hand. If, on the other hand, you're the Empire magazine, working under such conditions will probably be a totally alien concept to you. *s*
Simon, you'd make a good captain of a debate team. You've convinced me, and I'm a suspicious and paranoid person. I have to say, as a Spike fan, every time I hear mention of the Spike Movie I get all happy and excited. Then there is nothing, and I get all depressed. This emotional roller coaster gets pretty hard to take sometimes. I hope we hear good news soon.
Spike Schmike.
/e protest
"RIPPER! RIPPER! RIPPER! RIPPER!"
/e glances up and notices the sky turn paisley green with polka dots
"OZ MOVIE! OZ MOVIE! OZ MOVIE! OZ MOVIE!"
/e glances down and notices cows wearing parkas in hell
"BRING WASH BACK FROM THE DEAD! BRING WASH BACK FROM THE DEAD!"
/e disrupts realty, puncturing holes in the space-time continuum
"TARA AND JOHNATHAN TOO! TARA AND J--"
/e blinks out of existence in a puff of insignificance
Maybe they could take pre-orders of a Spike movie....I suspect they'd collect a bundle, sight unseen, if that could be arranged. All I need to know is that it's a Spike movie and that Joss has done it...sold!!!


Amazon has often put up items that don't exist or end up not being made available and has to take them down. If 20th Century Fox wanted to test the waters, I'm sure they could arrange to put the Spike movie DVD on Amazon.com, see what the pre-orders are like and then pull the plug on the project if the orders are too small or go ahead with it if they are big enough.

Still, with the money that 20th Century Fox has made off of the Buffy and Angel DVD's and continues to make off it, I figured it would be a no brainer. The Family Guy straight-to-DVD was quite the success for 20th Century Fox, so why not do the same thing with the Buffy-verse?

However, I'm happy to hear in this interview that Joss says he will very shortly know if the project is going forward or not, after all these months of talking about it with nothing happening one way or another.
As for the flack...well, I dunno if any was seriosly paying him out (Oz slang meaning giving him shit), it seemed more about the money stuff to me.


No, the money thing was joking, I got that. But a few mentions here and many others outside of W aren't jokes and show a general attitude of 'fish or cut bait' towards Joss. I personally don't want to rush anything, and I know James has his deadline, but from the sounds of it, Joss is being mindful of that.
The fact is that Kaylee and Inara are best friends – but they do not speak to each other for the entire film. It was just one of those things that fell by the wayside because it had to get shorter and shorter. I had them close together, I’d have them touch – do whatever I could to indicate that they were close, but they literally don’t speak to each other."


OMIGOD! I completely never noticed that! I have to go back and watch it again!

/e turns on DVD player

OMIGOD! S'truth! They never say a word to each other! I've seen this twenty times I never -- OMIGOD!

...

When I read Joss' words "fell by the wayside" as quoted above, my mind started replaying the song by Kristy Kruger that's called "Wayside." So it was like while reading the rest of the interview it had its own music score. *smirk*

[ edited by ZachsMind on 2006-03-03 05:38 ]
I think that if Joss really wants to make a Spike movie, he'll find a way to do it. (because we all know what can happen when he makes up his mind to do something) I just hope he makes up his mind soon, before the time runs out.
I would definitely advance pay to buy any Whedon DVD, plus I'd get them for gifts for friends and family. It works for Harry Potter books.

20th Century Fox I hope you're reading. (Isn't it time they changed their name by the way. "It's the 21st century Dru").

One of the advantages of coming late to the party is that it hasn't been that long a drought for me. I'm only finishing my second run through the final Angel season now. Plus, got to see Earshot in the right order so I knew what Buffy was talking about when she told Giles she heard her mother think he was like stevedore during sex. I just still haven't figured out if that's a compliment or not.

Any other Before Sunrise/Before Sunset fans here? It was nine years before the sequel got made - but it was worth the wait. And to heck with time limits. It would be great to have a movie where Spike is dealing with the fact that when he got recorporealized it restarted his aging process and he now has a human life span.
Any other Before Sunrise/Before Sunset fans here? It was nine years before the sequel got made - but it was worth the wait.

Big, big fan here!

Though, I suspect, no one was actually waiting for a Before Sunrise sequel - given how perfecly ambiguous the ending was. Or, more to the point, did anyone think that such a small budget indy film would ever need or want for a sequel.

In fact, the notion of a sequel to "Before Sunrise" was pretty abhorrent to me when I first caught wind of it. Now, of course, the two movies are a perfect couplet - just like Jesse/Celine. Oh god, I love those movies so much... "Sunset" improves on "Sunrise" and also makes "Sunrise" better.

I'd hate for Richard Linklater to tempt fate and try for a third... but I really want to know what happened to Jesse/Celine. I really need to know if they ever meet again.

Which is a roundabout way of saying, I don't necessarily need a Spike movie - but it could surprise the hell out of me!
If you only have eighteen minutes to do that interview _and_ you have to share that time with four colleagues, you bet you'll focus very much on the project at hand.
Adding to that, I'll bet that interviewers won't even want to hear from you unless you have something specific that is "news" to talk about.

Reporter: "Hello? It's who? Josh Wheldon? You're working on scripts, but nothing's ready to be filmed, released or come out on DVD? Uh-huh. Well, thanks for calling, I'll, uh, get back to you. Yeah, I definitely will. Really." *click* ;-)
Very nice interview, i liked the part were Joss said that he's gonna know soon enough if the Spike movie is gonna happen or not. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Yeah, fair comment to all those against the 'shit or get off the pot' tone of some of the posts (including possibly mine, tho' I was aiming more for humourous impatience and the probably not entirely realistic suggestion that Joss could use his Jedi powers to speed things up - crazy idea, since I should know he's not meant to use them for that sort of thing).

It's clearly not Joss' fault that the Spike movie hasn't got off the ground yet and we should be grateful he's even still trying given what he's got on his plate. That said (and again this isn't the big man's fault) it's easy to get weary of seeing the 'i'm trying' smoke over and over and become a bit impatient to see some 'i've succeeded, principal photography starts last week' fire. He's been asked the question tho' so what's he meant to do, lie ? And at least he seems to feel he'll know one way or another fairly soon.

Agreed billz, which I think is why when someone (actor,writer whatever) is being interviewed about their current film in release you tend to also get a lot of news about past projects and what they have coming up (I notice this with sources like sci-fi wire where you may have 3 or four articles relating to the same person but about different subjects all out within a day or two of a press junket for their current movie).

edited cos where before I thought the whole 'making sense' thing was over-rated, I am now converted (changed the bit before impatient to scan properly)

[ edited by Saje on 2006-03-03 17:54 ]
Exactly what Saje said above.

I actually mentioned myelf in another recent thread about how frustrating this Spike movie thing is to the fans who are biased towards the Buffyverse. I love Firefly/Serenity with a passion, i'm looking forward to Goners and i'm even quite looking forward to seeing whether or not Joss can get me interested in Wonder Woman, something DC hasn't been able to do in 30 years. However, i'm a Joss fan first and foremost because of the Buffyverse and most especially Spike. That is why i first came here and that is what i want to see continued, more than anything else.

So i'll gladly admit that the ongoing "wait and see" thing regarding this Spike movie is a little frustrating, largely because it deserves to be made and it's annoying that financial considerations are getting in the way of an amazing fictional reality getting to continue. We all know that that is just how television works but it is annoying nevertheless.

But i would hope that i can speak for every one of us frustrated Spike fans who post here when i say that there is no blame being laid at Joss' feet at all. We all know that he is doing his best and that if it doesn't happen it won't be because he didn't try his best. He knows we will stick with his work even if the Buffyverse never returns so he doesn't need to lie to us about a project that he knows will never happen just to keep us on side.

So, yeah, it is getting a little bit tiresome hearing news that isn't actually news about the Spike movie all the time but not because we doubt Joss or his intentions. We just want to see more Buffyverse, simple as that.
I just hope he makes up his mind soon, before the time runs out.

Yes, because Joss is just sat going 'Should I do a Spike movie? Oh, I just can't be arsed today'. Or not.

In some ways, I wish Joss had not mentioned the Spike movie at all previously. Something like the Goners announcement caught everybody completely off guard - as did Serenity to much of an extent. It's entirely possible the Spike project might not come together at all - it's all about the corporations who fund these things - and then I can see a fandom riot day.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-03-03 13:37 ]
Nah, i've got a little more faith in the common sense of the fandom than that, gossi. Okay, there may be the odd hyper-obsessive Spike fan that threatens to jump off a very tall building if the movie doesn't go ahead but then there are crazy people involved in pretty much everything. Just look in the White House right now.

You aren't going to find a bigger fan of Spike than me. I absolutely love the character and cannot wait to see some further stories featuring him. That said, if it doesn't happen then fair enough. We got a good ending for all of the central Buffy and Angel characters in Chosen and Not Fade Away and if that is where we have to leave them then so be it. I imagine that most Spike fans, no matter how much they want to see his story continued, wouldn't blame Joss for not being able to make a movie happen. He is trying and that is good enough.

EDIT: To add an "n't" to the word "would" due to the fact that the way it read previously made my entire point a little ... well ... pointless! ;)

[ edited by Vampire With A Gun on 2006-03-03 16:47 ]
Simon It's not the apparent lack of progress I mind, it's the apparent manipulation.

RS I'll thank him once I've seen the movie. What is there to thank for saying "maybe, sometime".

"Yes. Those Spike fans trying to fling mud at Joss for mentioning the project (which brings it the publicity it needs to happen) should eat that mud."

gossi Charming. Wasn't flinging mud, was expressing my lack of faith in anything he says with regard to the Spike movie. I like the guy, he seems nice, funny and I have a similar sense of humour. But I'm a born cynic and I feel manipulated. You and others don't agree with me and that is perfectly fine. Just prefer not to be told to "eat mud" because my opinion differs from others. Cheers.

If the movie doesn't happen I'll shrug and be happy, as I liked where Spike's story fnished in NFA. Just feel stringed along is all.
exoticmushroom, I wasn't singling you out with that comment - I hadn't even seen any comments to that effect in this topic.

I don't believe Joss is emotionally manipulating anybody with Spike comments, and honestly, I think that's way off base to suggest. At the end of the day, he keeps getting asked in interviews about it, and he keeps going 'I'm working on it'. Which he is. That's as far as it goes. If people don't want to know the status of it, they should stop asking him or stop reading the interviews. The fact some people have the impression Joss saying 'I'm working on it' translates to 'I can't be bothered' is worrying.

Producing a direct to DVD feature is going to take - even with a green light - a long time. And that's because there's a vast amount of people involved, and vast amounts of money. So, he's working on it. It'll take a while to pan out either way.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-03-03 16:42 ]
>>I don't believe Joss is emotionally manipulating anybody with Spike comments, and honestly, I think that's way off base to suggest. At the end of the day, he keeps getting asked in interviews about it, and he keeps going 'I'm working on it'.<<

Exactly. At the Hamburg junket, the waiting room was abuzz with rumors about a possible Spike film, and of course he was asked about it.

What's he supposed to reply? Sorry, no comment, it might upset a certain segment of my fans?

How much would _that_ upset them?

(Even though, looking at the Hamburg interviews and this one, pretty much nothing has changed in those five months. Still the same questions, still pretty much the same answers. Nothing new on any of the projects everyone keeps hoping/waiting for. In the age of Instant Gratification, I can see how this can make people vacuum up every rumor they can find, and react _very_ frustrated whenever another one proves to be just that, rumor ... *s*)
gossi Glad to here you weren't aiming the "eat mud" comment to anyone here. I'm sure you can see how that misunderstanding occured though. The occasional caveat on comments like that such as "not aimed at anyone here" sure does stop any confusion. Although, it's still not a pleasant thing to say about anyone imo.

I appreciate that you don't think anyone is being manipulated, which is fine. But that doesn't stop me and others *feeling* that way. I wouldn't be upset if he said he couldn't comment, or that if he said it wont happen. But like I say I'm cynical and I find the timing of his comments suspicious, just as the film is being released, just as the DVD is being released. Surely you can see how an old cynic like me would hear alarm bells. LOL.
Manipulated to what end, would be my question.

I'm sure Joss never imagined that by keeping hopes for a Spike movie alive, he's actually alienating those who want it most. The guy can't win!
Well, Rogue Slayer, as one of the ones who wants the Spike movie the most i can honestly say that i'm not feeling manipulated or alienated in the least. Quite the opposite in fact.

If i'm understanding exoticmushroom correctly, she (i'm assuming "she" from the email address on her profile) is suggesting that Joss is mentioning the possibility of the Spike DVD movie in these interviews simply as a way to increase potential sales of Serenity. That by giving Spike's fans a vague hope of a movie somewhere down the line, that will be enough to get them to go out and buy Serenity. Personally i think that is a little insulting to both Joss and the Spike fans in general.

Firstly, i bought Serenity because it is a fantastic movie and would have done regardless of any mention of Spike in the various interviews Joss did recently. Secondly, as has been said here numerous times already, Joss only mentioned the Spike movie when he was asked about the Buffyverse specifically. Why would he not mention the one project that is currently a possibility.

If Joss had continuously blurted out "I'm working on a Spike movie ... now go out and buy Serenity!!!" then i'd appreciate that the cynics among us would have alarms going off in their heads but that isn't how it has been. If somebody asks him a question, regardless of the subject matter, then why is it surprising that he answers it?
From what I can see from Spike fans, when the movie was first mentioned, we were squeeing all over the place. Over time, it appears that this might be another Ripper--just talk, and so the attitude is more "we'll believe it when we see it". If it does indeed happen, trust me, there will be much celebration and Joss worshipping.
I appreciate that you don't think anyone is being manipulated, which is fine. But that doesn't stop me and others *feeling* that way.

Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Sure, people can choose to feel whatever they want at whatever action. If someone shakes my hand I can say it 'feels' as an insult to me, but I doubt many people would find that an understandable reaction.

You see, 'manipulation' suggests deliberate deception for one's own gain, leading people to an end they're not aware of. That's in no way applicable here because there is no 'gain' for Joss in this. If someone is not interested in a Spike movie, they won't become interested because he says one might be coming, will they? If they are interested, they won't stop being interested because he says it's coming. And if he DOESN'T say it's coming and it shows up, they're still going to be interested because they already were. So the 'gain' element falls away per definition, which rules out manipulation by definition.

(Unless you would suggest he might get pure pleasure out of stringing fans along, but in that case I wonder if you've ever understood a single word he wrote or said.)

I find it pretty unbelievable that if you're a TV/Movie creator and you're nice enough to keep fans personally updated about what might be in the works, it actually leads to people being angry at you for it. If he didn't do it, he'd be called impersonal and uncaring.

There are 3 possible things for him to say on this:
1- "There will never be a Spike movie." Well, if you're still working on getting it off the ground, it would be more than silly to say that. It would also be lying since you don't know yet.
2- "There will definitely be a Spike movie." If that were the case, he'd say it. But if you don't know yet, you can't say that.
3 "There might be a Spike movie, but it's not sure yet." In that case there's nothing to do but say just that. And then people will complain and accuse you of being manipulative.

Or a fourth option, which would be not saying anything in any of those 3 cases. Then people will call you uncaring about the Buffyverse, Spike as a character, and/or just the fans in general. So basically, he's trying to be nice, and he'll get flack no matter what.

If Joss had continuously blurted out "I'm working on a Spike movie ... now go out and buy Serenity!!!" then i'd appreciate that the cynics among us would have alarms going off in their heads but that isn't how it has been.

Exactly, and the idea that mentioning a Spike movie mention would increase Serenity sales is ludicrous. Why would one have anything to do with the other? There's plenty of Buffyfans who don't care for Serenity and plenty of Serenity fans who could never get into Buffy. And if you always liked both, again, it doesn't matter.

Now if you'll excuse me, someone just informed me there might be rain tomorrow, and I'm just feeling all manipulated.;-) Seriously though, let's also not forget the Spike movie might be straight to DVD. That hasn't been done a lot with TV movies based on former shows. It takes a lot of work and cutting through red tape. I'm sure he'd prefer to have a finished movie already too. I for one am not 100% optimistic, but I hope for the best, and in the meantime I appreciate the time he takes to keep us informed.
Why are people getting so bent out of shape because of how I feel when a Spike movie is mentioned in connection with Serenity.

It's how *I* feel. You don't have to agree and you quite clearly don't.

"If Joss had continuously blurted out "I'm working on a Spike movie ... now go out and buy Serenity!!!" then i'd appreciate that the cynics among us would have alarms going off in their heads but that isn't how it has been."

VWAG I doesn't work unless it's subtle.

Also, I do recall fans of Serenity telling Spike fans that they really should support the movie because then Joss would have more clout to get the Spike movie made. No, before you ask it wasn't here. But I am clearly not alone in seeing a connection.

I'll comment no more on this as I fear yet more posts telling me how insulting and ludicrous I am.
OK, this discussion has gotten a little too heated. Let's go back to what Joss has actually said, rather than what he didn't say, or should've said, or meant to say.

That said, my one comment would be that I don't really understand the Ripper analogy: I never had the impression that Joss was paying lip-service to the idea - it's just that it didn't work out. Seems like that's the nature of TV/movie production - only a tiny percentage of projects floating around, any of which could be "real", will ever get realized.

OK. If folks want serious further discussion on the likelihood and viability of the Spike movie, I'd suggest opening a thread on whedonesque.org. Thanks.

(ETA: At work, so there was a delay in posting this. Please all - no more comments on this issue.)
"Any other Before Sunrise/Before Sunset fans here? It was nine years before the sequel got made - but it was worth the wait."

I'm not sure why, but I didn't enjoy Sunset as much as I enjoyed Sunrise. Maybe because I'm about the same age as the characters?
I didn't enjoy Sunset as much as I enjoyed Sunrise. Maybe because I'm about the same age as the characters?


Hmm, I enjoyed Sunset much more than Sunrise. And I'm just a little older than the characters in Sunset. I remember when Sunrise came out, I sorta pissily refused to go see it, because the premise of an American director doing what I viewed as a French-style "talkie" movie sounded like a nightmare. I happily eat my words there.

But I wholeheartedly subscribe to KeithG's statement that "Sunset improves on Sunrise and also makes Sunrise better." The way the latter movie showed the evolution of their hopes and dreams, and the disillusionment associated with ageing and the road not taken, was, IMHO, simply beautiful. The earlier movie was bold and refreshing, but callow. The latter was sublime.

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