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March 15 2006

Kids review Serenity and various other films as part of the Family Valued film awards.

I can't remember what I was like at 12 but are they normally so elloquent?
I'd be interested in what they think of the whole "batteries" line :)
Is a 15yr old a kid?
Yes. And technically a 17 year old is still a kid. But I think 15 year olds are immature enough to still be considered a child :-)
Yeah, I think it's just plain wrong to compare 15 year olds and 6 year olds. Despite it being 7 years since I was 15, I'm pretty damn sure that I had a rather intellectual way of looking at things in general. And if someone says different I'll feel offended.
Well, I'm in my 30's and I think I'm still a kid. ;)
Fifty-one, and still infantile after all these years.
And technically a 17 year old is still a kid.
{snip}
Well, I'm in my 30's and I think I'm still a kid. ;)
{snip}
Fifty-one, and still infantile after all these years.

I agree that being a "kid" or "adult" is in how you feel, no matter what your year of birth. ;-)

Carolyn Rolleston's (13) Best Inspiration for Making a Parody Using Dungeons and Dragons People: BrokebackMountain.

13 year olds are watching Brokeback Mountain? It was a good movie, but shouldn't you be a little older to see a movie about any kind of extramarital love affair (especially since there is a brief sex scene)? Well, maybe that's why Ms. Rolleston and her friends made a stop-motion "comedy" out of it later. (Of course, The Soup on E! has been trying the same every week, but not very successfully! ;-))
13 year olds are watching Brokeback Mountain?

I was about to make a similar comment. There are actually several sex scenes in the film between various characters and a fair amount of nudity. However to me that was a less depressing comment than 11 year olds being thrilled by a sword that can chop down a horse and rider together and complaining that a female character prevented violence. At least there were also quotes from the 9 year old who not only appreciated non-violence in a film but made the observation "You can tell it's by the same person who did Nightmare Before Christmas because the good characters are skinny and tall, and the evil ones are chubby and shorter."
"There are actually several sex scenes in the film between various characters and a fair amount of nudity."

I think I'd seen 'worse' before the age of 11 and my mind had already been sullied by Ian Fleming's Bond books and whatever else was on our shelves.

But then that was the 70s, which felt so much more enlightened than the 00's. I can't stand this puritan age we're in now, make it stop.
I read Day of the Jackal and various Robert Ludlum books when I was about 10 as well as some Bond, a few Colin Forbes war novels etc. All quite violent but I don't think I suffered any ill effects.

OK sure, there's the black-outs and waking with blood on my hands as well as the mysterious disappearances in my area... And the mass murder back in the 90's but I still dispute that (I mean, can you really call 4 'mass' ? Shouldn't that just be a 'several' murder ? Possibly even a 'few' ?). But apart from those, no ill effects.

I think kids are actually pretty good at separating fiction from reality (better than most adults give them credit for) though I wouldn't actively encourage mine (if I had any) to be watching 18 certificates at 13 years old (even though i'd know they probably were). Sad to say but I think most kids have probably seen worse images on the news by the time they're 13 than many 'grown-up' movies can provide and I don't see anything wrong with nudity so long as it's not shown in a sordid, exploitative way. It's just a naked body, we all have one ;).
There are actually several sex scenes in the film between various characters and a fair amount of nudity.

Oh, right, I forgot about the nudity, too. I guess my brain deleted many of the sex scenes because they were about angry, dissatisfying sex. ;-)

I can't stand this puritan age we're in now, make it stop.

I agree, but there's always been differences between Europe and the US in attitudes about sex. I agree that the US is way too afraid of the human body -- all that silly freaking out over Janet Jackson's breast, for example (and she was even wearing a nipple shield, or maybe that was what was so "frightening"! ;-))

With Brokeback, I'm mostly thinking more about the emotional impact on young kids who may not "get" adult relationships instead of just sex or nudity alone: for one thing, the characters are cheating on their wives, which causes great unhappiness. Also, while nudity itself doesn't bother me, the context here is that it is a sex scene with Anne Hathaway, who starred in kids' movies like The Princess Diaries and Ella Enchanted. Kids who were fans of hers from those movies may not be at an age where they understand this very different character and her motivations {Brokeback Mountain spoiler} .

It just seems like a parent should be around to talk to the kids about what the material is presenting and make sure they understand what they are seeing, that married people sometimes hurt each other, that sometimes sex is with someone you love and sometimes it's not, and so on. On the other hand, if these kids turned around and made their own stop-motion film, maybe they are far advanced and mature anyway!

Saje, I agree with you, too. I'd much rather young kids stayed away from the horrible things on the news -- and from violence for that matter (like yourlibrarian's comment about the 11 year olds who liked killing rider and horse simultaneously with a sword) -- than just a good old nude person. But, Saje, while I think "3 dead bodies" might still fall under the category of, say, "accident" or "coincidence" or "clerical error," by time you get to 4, you're certainly in the lower range of "mass." If you get up to double-digits, then it's time to consider a new hobby. ;-)
Yeah, that's the way the authorities saw it too billz. I suggested they follow the spirit of the law instead of being slaves to conformity. Turns out the spirit of the law is also against murder so a bit of a legal blind-alley that idea.

Anyway, i've since taken up macrame which is a far more socially acceptable hobby. Must confess i'm finding it a bit frustrating trying to get the intestines to stay knotted though (very slippery).

(I agree that a good parent will be available to discuss things that a teenager may see in films and i'd say that for actual sex acts, 13 is probably about the earliest suitable viewing age because of the psychological complexities you mention)

Yes. And technically a 17 year old is still a kid. But I think 15 year olds are immature enough to still be considered a child :-)


Just to clarify, a 17 year old in the UK wouldn't generally be considered a kid. Old enough to have sex, gay sex, smoke blah blah.

By *not* exposing kids to films like Brokeback, I think we're creating a very unlikable generation for the future.
Trouble with sex acts and adult relationships portrayed in Holywood films is that they are unrealistic. Start letting teenagers being able to see them in the movies and you're giving them a false impression of what it's all about and how a relationship works.

Let them see when they're 18, at that age the majority of them will be mature enough to deal with the issues raised. The law works fine in that respect for me.
You know, if we (society) didn't demonize all of these R-rated films so much, then maybe kids wouldn't see them and then try to go Buffalo Bill on the first plus-size lady he sees. By protecting our children, we're actually doing more harm.
I'm 15. I don't consider myself a kid, per say, although I wouldn't be offended by being labelled one.

I don't think there's anything wrong with 12 year olds watching Brokeback Mountain. I'd say it's pretty much standard fare for them.
I'd rather kids watch Brokeback Mountain than the tit flicks of the 80s I grew up on! I mean, I don't think there's necessarily any harm with Porky's or Revenge of the Nerds... but there's not much benefit to them!

I'd also rather kids see loving relationships on film than bloody horrific massacres... although, also no harm in watching A Nightmare on Elm St. I turned out okay :-)

Interestingly, both Harry Potter IV and Brokeback were rated M in Australia - meaning anyone under 15 needed to be accompanied by a parent or guardian. So on that level, our ratings board saw little difference in content for children - which is both excellent (I agree with the rating) and surprising (our ratings board is very conservative).
It was a good movie, but shouldn't you be a little older to see a movie about any kind of extramarital love affair (especially since there is a brief sex scene)?

Billz, do you really think 13-year olds should not be allowed to see movies depicting an extra-marital love affair? (and the sex-scenes are only a strenghtening of this?) This would imply that, unless those movies were situated in the Netherlands or Belgium (and Spain?), there could not be any gay people in love in movies (for 13-year olds). I think at that age they should already be familiarized with the fact that gay people exist, otherwise they might start to think being gay is somehow abnormal, which leads to all sorts of discrimation and such.

I haven't seen Brokeback Mountain, but in the review of my newspaper it said "Ang Lee shows really well how the rules of society not only ruin the lives of the two men, but also of their families and children". This is actually a message which I'd like my 13 year olds to know (if I had children), so they might chance those rules. Off course, not having seen the movie, I can't judge whether this movie is suited to tell them this message. Anyway, I guess the people making the ratings of movies here agree with me, since the movie is rated for 12 years and over (due to violence).
My 13-year-old self was watching Nightmare on Elm Street and 9 1/2 Weeks at sleepovers, with parental knowledge. I'd much rather kids were watching intelligent films like Brokeback Mountain that were sympathetic and humane portrayals of gay people, than the finger-pointing gay jokes that are often the norm at that age when anyone different can be a target.
I really think everything has to be judged by the individual child involved. My son is 10 at this point rather than a teenager. There are things that I allow him to see that much of society might think I should not. There are other things that society says it is alright for him to see, that I think he is not ready for. I am more comfortable when I get to see almost any adult movie before he does to decide whether it is appropriate.

Blood, guts, grusome violence, horror, monsters both human and otherwise are not his (or my) cup of tea. It is better if I already know when to cover his eyes or even ears when we watch something that has that stuff in it incidentally. (We don't watch if there is nothing more to it than that element.) Nudity does not bother me so much, though it is beginning to bother him more and more. (My baby's growing up. sob. ;-) ) Complex relationships, he has an ability to understand way beyond what is commonly expected for his age, so I have no problem with that as long as it has a realistic point. Graphic sex. Hmmmm It causes a problem at this age. I would rather avoid it at this point. Gay situations, not a problem. A year ago I asked him if he understood what people meant when they said someone was gay, and he said "Yeah, like Willow and Tara." I was fine with that as a place to build on.

...But all that is for my son. I do not have a great desire to decide for other people's children.
Gay situations, not a problem. A year ago I asked him if he understood what people meant when they said someone was gay, and he said "Yeah, like Willow and Tara."


You're raising a good'un, newcj. Luck to ya!
Thanks, unpluggedcrazy. I need all the luck I can get.

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