Whedonesque : Comments on 9846 : Buffy vs Superman.

Two words. Kryptonite stake.

I hadn't read her character's description before. One of her nemesissises is Joss Whedon's high concept musical? ha!

Yeah, if Buffy can't figure out the kryptonite connection, who can?

Okay, so I voted for the Slayer, but come on, let's be real. Super speed, the ability to fly, laser vision, freeze breath...against a high-fashion, quip-ready Mighty Mouse mallrat who knows tae kwon do. Superman has so many powers that he could deal with the Slayer from a distance, where neither her super strength nor her one-liner abilities could be effectively deployed. In real life, this one would be Supes all the way. (I know, I'm a bad fan. But I await your flames with my freeze breath.)

BAFfler | March 21, 03:43 CET

Buffy would wait for him inside a lead-lined room and finish him quickly...Buffy wins with her glow-in-the-dark stake!

Calledon | March 21, 03:47 CET

I enjoyed the Batman thread because people didn't all line up on Buffy's side (like I did ;-). So no, BAFfler, you're not a bad fan. =)

I think this one does heavily favor Supes, because he's not at all the kind of creature Buffy was Chosen to fight against. She's built to fight vampires, demons, and forces of darkness, and there's some of that in Batman, so even though he's a good guy, Buffy would know how to attack him. Superman is a totally different story, I don't think Buffy would know where to start against him.

And yet, I voted for Buffy. Hehehe...

jam2 | March 21, 03:57 CET

If Buffy can take down a god, she can take down an alien. Buffy zaps Supes with Toth's rod, splits him into two (a la Xander in The Replacement) and Giles smothers Clark to death. Remember Superman is extremely vunerable to magic.

Failing that Superman and Buffy could stand around shouting at each other "the last time you really inspired anyone was when you were dead".

Simon | March 21, 03:59 CET

I don't think Buffy would stand a chance here guys. I voted Superman. He could just heat blast her from 30 feet away and that'd be the end of it.

MindPieces | March 21, 04:09 CET

A problem I always had with Superman was that he could exceed the speed of light, set things on fire with his eyes, could fly into the center of the sun and his forelock would be unbothered, that he can see through things (how does he know when to stop seeing through?), and his general invulnerability.

I know, I know, kryptonite and magic...hmmm....magic...maybe Buffy does stand a chance.

Chris inVirginia | March 21, 04:10 CET

I loved the video! What a good use of clips and Jono's speech. *sob*

XanFan32 | March 21, 04:13 CET

How many times did Batman defeat Superman? And Buffy just beat Batman so....

Calledon | March 21, 04:15 CET

The inevitable next step from the Buffy versus Bats debate. Yeah, it's Buffy for me. I have to go with the "kryptonite stake" contingent. Besides, would Supes hit a girl? ;-)

billz | March 21, 04:22 CET

Okay, technically Superman would appear to be a dead cert, given all of his powers and so on. However if you go with my 'who has the nicer ass' theory that i previously used to (correctly) predict the winner of the Buffy/Batman battle then you will be left with no choice but to go with the Buffster again.

The 'nice ass' theory. Works every time.

The Watcher | March 21, 04:24 CET

I think Batman would win in the "nicer ass" competition, but that's just me.

MindPieces | March 21, 04:59 CET

It's doubtful that Superman would give Buffy the time to locate Kryptonite. If B already had the stone, Superman wouldn't need to get close enough for it to work--frickin laser beams! I'm afraid Supes would have his way, so to speak.

Ubqtous | March 21, 05:59 CET

"If Buffy can take down a god, she can take down an alien."

I so agree. Glory had to have been faster than Sup, and probably stronger.. she just didn't have the ex-ray vision =D. Buffy could possibley deflect the laser beams off of the shiny part of her scythe and reflect it right back to him, then just chop his head off :-P.

Koven | March 21, 06:13 CET

See, I voted for Batman, who did whoop Supes behind. So if Buffy can take down Batguy, what chance does smallville stand?

NickSeng | March 21, 06:14 CET

Heh, ubqtous, love the Dr. Evil reference.

NickSeng | March 21, 06:16 CET

So, if sticks and stones can’t break Superman’s bones, can Buffy’s words hurt him? I’m sure she will unleash a merciless barrage of snarky comments about his outfit. I mean, blue spandex and red underpants? That is more than ample fodder for a killing!

Pliny | March 21, 06:17 CET

I was one of the people who argued that Batman could beat Buffy by finding her weaknesses and yet I think Buffy could beat Superman. I mean he's not the type of superhero to immediately attack and kill his enemies. Especially not one like Buffy who looks like an average teenager and likely wouldn't think of Buffy as a threat. Then before you know it she whips out that Kryptonite stake out of a lead box and the man of steel is history.

Matt_Fabb | March 21, 06:58 CET

Remember the climactic scene at the end of Kill Bill vol.2 when Bill is explaining that Superman is an anomaly because he is unique in that all superheroes have to put on their costume to become their superpowered alter ego and he does just the opposite? As an avid comic fan, I had read that idea years ago in The Great Comicbook Heroes by Feiffer and though it wasn't an original idea, I had to agree. Superman is unique that way. Upon further review, I'm not so sure. When Buffy wakes up in the morning, she's the slayer. No costume required. In my mind, this somehow levels the playing field.

Two heroes who are what they are. Who wins a fight? That's probably a question that only the writer can answer...and I really can't see Joss letting anyone else pen that tale...and as long as we happen to have Mr. Whedon right here....

(As a side note: Are we to assume it's Buffy and the Scoobies or just her by her lonesome? -- If you include the Scoobies, I'd give the edge to Buffy....between Xander and Andrew, they'd come up with a plan straight out of the funny books. I can totally picture Andrew dressed up like Mr. Mxyzptlk)

alexreager | March 21, 07:06 CET

Superman is kind of a moron. Yes, i don't like Superman at all and am a huge Buffy fan, but that isn't the point. Superman was always such a moronic superhere, he's basically invicible except for kryptonite. Anway, let's use some systematic logic here: Batman has beaten Superman (a few times), and Buffy beat Batman, therefore Buffy beats Superman.
These polls are always problematical though, as what kind of fights are these? Is this a strict one-on-one no weapons kind of thing, or do they get some prep time? Considering the characters that have been in the poll (James Bond, Batman, etc) i would assume gadgets are okay, as they are part of who some of the characters are and why they are "super". If Buffy gets prep time then Superman loses. Giles would no doubt help Buffy out with a stash of Kryptonite, and while super-moron has his laser-vision (or whatever) he never managed to use it on Batman. Buffy wins.

Dhoffryn | March 21, 07:09 CET

Awww. Superman would just fall in love with her because she's so cute, and she'd win by default.

Nebula1400 | March 21, 07:56 CET

Well, I finally--FINALLY!--got around reading The Dark Knight Strikes Again, Frank Miller's sequel to The Dark Knight Returns. If Buffy were up against the Superman we see at the end of Strikes Again...she, nor the human race, would stand a chance.

But if we're just talking regular ol' mamby-pamby Boy Scout Man, Buffy's got him down easily. Use a bit o' kryptonite, a dabbling of magic...and he's done for. Batman--a guy with no powers at all--has repeatedly kicked Superman's ass. Yeah, Batman would take Buffy down in five seconds, but Buffy could do the same to Superman.

UnpluggedCrazy | March 21, 08:00 CET

Well, since Batman can (and HAS) kicked Superman's blue-tighted butt around the block, I smell a rigged competition here. But oh well, you can't talk sense to fans I guess... *shrug*

Haunt | March 21, 08:22 CET

How did Agent Smith get so high on the villain's list? He's a computer program!

crossoverman | March 21, 08:39 CET

Buffy by herself versus Supes; she's toast. End of effing argument.

...

Buffy's 'scooby' entourage versus Supes and his? Let's see what he's got. A snobby reporter. A snot-nosed kid. A grey-haired old blowhard. All three of which are more easily distracted than a basket of puppies, and so dim they can't figure out for over fifty years who that guy wearing the glasses is.

Buffy's got Giles and Wesley, two men well-versed in multiple sciences, diverse magicks, and can speak several different languages, although most of them are dead languages. She's got Willow, a witch who almost destroyed the planet once, and could probably accidently destroy Superman just by sneezing at an inopportune moment. She's got Xander & Andrew, who someone pointed out before have extensively researched all of Superman's weaknesses. She's got an ex-vengeance demon when she's not dead, the occasional werewolf, a couple vampire dudes who have opted for pig's blood over killing humans, and she's got Dawnie and Cordelia.. who... uh... would make good bait! Yeah! Damsels in distress! Superman can't resist that! Buffy's also now got an army of women almost as slayerishy as she is!

Supes wouldn't stand a chance. The man's going DOWN.

ZachsMind | March 21, 08:40 CET

ZachsMind, you forgot Illyria!

ladysorcha | March 21, 09:54 CET

Right now it says Buffy's chance of winning is 65 percent - Superman's is 35 percent.

Ronald_SF | March 21, 10:25 CET

At the risk of repeating others, while Batman should've been able to beat Buffy, Buffy should definitely come out over Superman. His second biggest weakness is magic, and his biggest assets are the same as Glory's, only without the ruthless insanity she had which was really the only thing that made her dangerous. Could he kill Buffy from a distance if he wanted to? Certainly. Would he ever actually do it? Not a chance. The Boy Scout is no sniper. Hell, he'll probably spend the first five minutes of the fight trying to figure out how to put her out of commission without hitting a woman. By which time, Buffy will have retrieved something to even the playing field (possibly the troll hammer or the scythe or the army of slayers or, y'know, Willow...)

Bayne | March 21, 12:41 CET

Oh come on now. The fact that she "beat" Batman is silly enough. There isn't a chance in hell that she could beat the Man of Steel.

Andy Dufresne | March 21, 13:15 CET

I would have to agree with Andy on this one. Buffy wouldn't stand a chance against Batman or Superman.

sethsky | March 21, 13:41 CET

Ooh, almost forgot about Supes's vulnerability to magic. The Kryptonian is a goin' down!

Niels | March 21, 13:49 CET

Logic vs Loyalty 0 - 2, Go Buff !

jpr | March 21, 14:34 CET

Could he kill Buffy from a distance if he wanted to? Certainly. Would he ever actually do it? Not a chance. The Boy Scout is no sniper.

See that's why I think it depends largely upon the basis of why they are fighting. On any normal day Buffy would beat Superman for the same reason Batman has previous, namely Superman is a boy scout and Batman/Buffy really aren't.

However if Superman goes insane, under mind control or some such, suddendly lasering her from a distance becomes a possibility. Still that is such a rare occurance I'm gonna have to side with the kryptonite stake.

war_machine | March 21, 16:52 CET

Sorry, guys, I can't let my love of Buffy get in the way of pure logic here. Superman is almost as fast as the Flash, plus he can fly. He can see through walls. There's *NO* way Buffy has *ANY* realistic chance.

PMMJ | March 21, 17:24 CET

Really guys, what are you smoking? Buffy would stand no chance. NONE. Superman doesn't NEED to take her out from a distance. He could knock her head off by thumping her. If he chose to stand still, Buffy would break her hand while trying to hit him.

Magic isn't some kind of Superman killer. He's VUNERABLE to it. Wow. That's one thing you have. That's like saying Buffy's vulnerable to a jab in the throat, or a brick to the back of the head. Magic is just something that has the potential to harm him. If that's all you're counting on, you're sadly mistaken.

Superman vs. Buffy and the entire Scooby Gang (including Willow) and the fight would be over with in under 2 minutes. The only team that stands a real chance in taking Superman out is a team of people like Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter.

Joss, chime in! You know I speak the truth.

AuburnTiger | March 21, 18:37 CET

But where does Buffy get the kryptonite? Smallville aside, iirc the stuff isn't exactly easy to come by. Maybe Luthor held onto a piece or two . . . that's almost a story concept for the crossover . . .

Tycho | March 21, 18:39 CET

"But where does Buffy get the kryptonite? Smallville aside, iirc the stuff isn't exactly easy to come by. Maybe Luthor held onto a piece or two . . . that's almost a story concept for the crossover . . ."

Oh come on. Buffy is a magical tool magnet. When has whatever she needed to beat the bad guys not been nearby? Do you honestly think that is coincidence? I think we can safely assume that Buffy has powers she is still not truly aware of. The kryptonite will be nearby.

That said, the whole Batman thing confused me because I don't follow comic books. Superman though, I mean a guy who is invulnerable unless he is near a magic rock that will make him weak and take away his powers. Change his name and it sounds like a Buffy episode without some extra problem to make it interesting.

newcj | March 21, 19:16 CET

I think we need to set up some ground rules here because this is getting way too subjective. It depends on the conditions. If this were your average Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode, in the beginning of the episode Supes would clean her clock, but then by the bottom of the hour the Scoobies would be in Research Mode and by end of episode Supes would be on the ropes and Buffy would be looming over him with some large green glowy weapon in her hand while Willow had him in a coccoon of magic energy and the others were high fiving and patting one another on the back. Then Andrew would rush up to the war weary Supes and beg for his autograph.

Why are they fighting? What's the setting? ARE we talking just Buffy & Supes alone or do they both have backup? Are we talking Metropolis or Sunnydale? What's the battle field and what are the stakes? I mean the metaphorical ones not the actual... stakes. *smirk*

ZachsMind | March 21, 19:48 CET

“Clark Kent had a job...i just wanna go on a date” - Buffy in never kill a boy on the first date

She knows his TRUE identity therefore she has the power. Buffy wins through blackmail :) heh heh....unless you know he squishes her brain with his superdude fist...then she pretty much has nothing on him. This is muchos confusing!

willowzbitch | March 21, 20:19 CET

This is simple. Batman had a kryptonite ring, which he had previously used to defeat Superman. He's in an elimination contest with other superheroes, including Superman, so of course he'd have it with him. Buffy defeats Batman, sees this shiny ring clipped to his bat belt, and decides it would go perfect with those funky green boots she bought the other day.

So then when this fight starts, Superman is all like "this will hurt me more than it will hurt you little girl," and Buffy is all like "ewww, don't they have trousers on your planet? This is worse than when Xander wore those speedos".

Then it's WHAM, BIFF, PUNCH, "oh no the ring", SMACK, ZOTTO, POWER-KICK, and Superman gets it right in his bulging package and is down for the count.

Next!

AlanD | March 21, 20:21 CET

Yeaah, y'see my problem is that if we allow Buffy time to prepare, all kinds of knowledge about Supes' weaknesses and the necessary gadgets to defeat him with, then all confrontations in this thing should've been like that. Which, once again, leads me to conclude that Buffy wouldn't have had a chance against Batman. Bats (given the same time and info, etc.) would have taken the Buffster down SO hard.....

(btw that sounded less sexual in my head)

But then this is more about 'power of fanbase' than actual 'powers of character'.

EdDantes | March 21, 20:45 CET

Hey even if Buffy had time, you would then have to assume Clark also had time. Superman isn't stupid. Buffy can learn all about Kryptonite if it tickles her, he can learn many many more ways of imprisoning and/or decking her. She's be down before Buffy learnt how to spell Kyptonite.

Andy Dufresne | March 21, 20:53 CET

"She's be down before Buffy learnt how to spell Kyptonite."

Why would she have to learn to spell Kyptonite...or even kryptonite?

Oh no! Is there a written section now? ;-)

newcj | March 21, 21:58 CET

The sources where I've learned about Buffy have teached one thing: You have to look at the season arc. It's second to last episode: Buffy vs Supes and after that the final battle with Big Bad. This is only the toughest of tough henchmen. The situation is desperate and the enemy invulnerable, so there will be somekind of a saving twist. No way she'll lose now. Female empowerment time!

For Supes the losing will launch a big story-arc about identity and self-discovery.

futile | March 21, 22:22 CET

Diana's magic blade in Kingdom Come cut Superman. So even without Willow's backup, I think the Slayer scythe is plenty magical enough to do more damage than he's comfortable with. He usually doesn't even bother dodging melee weapons. As long as she came out with a solid first assault that he wasn't prepared for, it'd probably get her a long way.

dingoes8 | March 21, 22:34 CET

I would say that Glory was just about as fast as the flash.. and I think if they made Buffy into a cartoon then they would be able to show a much more powerfull Slayer, concidering that a cartoon isn't restricted to the laws of physics.

Koven | March 22, 00:27 CET

I think it was Damon Runyon who said, "The battle is not always to the strong, nor the race to the swift...but that's the way to bet."

Therefore, I've got to give it Supes.

I do think that Buffy would clearly defeat Superman at a game of Trivial Pursuit. All those pop culture references and hanging around Giles would more than put her over the top.

bobster | March 22, 00:29 CET

But... what about free will?

(At least, that's how every college philosophy/religion discussion ended. Maybe it will work here.)

But actually, it's a valid point. Because each of these people (OK, characters) would be horrified to kill the other.

bookrats | March 22, 03:37 CET

How did Agent Smith get so high on the villain's list? He's a computer program!

Dude! He's a computer program! He hacked into the results file.

bookrats | March 22, 03:38 CET

bookrats, I think I love you.

twa_corbies | March 22, 04:30 CET

Krypto versus Kitty Fantastico: who would win!??

I say Ambush Bug!

ZachsMind | March 22, 07:03 CET

I say Ambush Bug!

"OUT OF MY WAY!! I have to appear on seven different covers at the SAME TIME!!"

bookrats | March 22, 08:31 CET

They missed out some of Buffy's most important powers:

- Sarcasm: reduces enemy to a gibbering wreck

- Pouty lips: melts hearts at 100 paces

- Fashion sense: OK, not that useful, but she's got a zillion times more of it than Superman

tichtich | March 22, 12:44 CET

Hey even if Buffy had time, you would then have to assume Clark also had time. Superman isn't stupid.

Are you saying there's a connection between Clark Kent and Superman?

barboo | March 22, 19:10 CET

Are you saying there's a connection between Clark Kent and Superman?

Where does Glory factor into all of this???

[ edited by ZachsMind on 2006-03-22 21:27 ]

ZachsMind | March 22, 23:23 CET

Well Glory was a God.. If Buffy could beat a God than something tells me she could beat an alien.

Koven | March 23, 05:01 CET

March 21 2006